NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/misc-part1/2953

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 13.2 KB

Path: zetnet.co.uk!demon!hchworth.demon.co.uk
From: Paul Chan <paul>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: The March Amiga?
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:54:12 GMT
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[e-mail] (Gary Alan Peake) wrote:

>>The most important factor in this equation is going to be price, not
>>necessarily name. 299 UK pounds and you`ll have a lot of people seriously
>>thinking about the Net Surfer, much more, and you`ll be in a situation similar
>>to AT UK at the moment (see below for more details).
>
>So, we are 'positive' that they were cut because sales didn't measure up? Or
>was it because C= UK was a seperate entity until being bought by Amiga Tech?
>And being the rebels that bid against them, AT cut them? It happens in
>business. Buy up the bad boys and then cut them out...

C= UK were snipped off completely anyway. It was just the remnants of the old
operation AFAIK. OK, AT UK messed up big time. Maybe they *were* made up of
ex-C= UK staff (sans David Pleasance who has released a cynical attempt to cash
in on Amigans in the form of a CD "based around the Amiga").

Only two staff left now, AFAIK, but they are still AFAIK, from AT UK therefore
C=UK.


>[mega snip]
>
>
>>AHA! They risk alienating previous buyers by tacking off in a different
>>direction. In terms of your example about cars. In Europe, the [GM] Vauxhall
>>Vectra (Will be called Saturn in the US, I think) is a replacement for the
>>ageing Cavalier model. It`s aimed at the company car buyer and while Vauxhall
>>overhauled the entire engineering design, they kept the exterior and interior
>>similar for the conservative company market. This was done in order to retain
>>their custom when the time came for an upgrade. Sound familiar?
>>
>>In other words, Vauxhall was aiming the car at company car buyers, and who
>>better to target first than previous Vauxhall owners who would have very much
>>of an impact on sales...
>>
>>OK, so the design of the exterior and some of the interior almost apes the
>>Cavlier that it was slated to replace, but the rest of the car has been
>>redesigned and made much better than the stodgy Cavalier.
>
>And is this not what Amiga Technologies is doing? Upgrading the initial
>product and keeping it aimed at the same, first time buyers?

They didn`t upgrade the A1200. And they released it at 100UK pounds above it`s
last known price. To many UK owners it was *300* UK pounds above it`s last
known price, since Currys and Dixons blew out their stocks for just 99-199 UK
pounds (depending on region) in the final days of the Amiga as we knew it. OK,
it was probably cost or below cost, but they were clearing the shelves for the
consoles - and many of us (including me) missed the chance to snap them up at
bargain prices. That could be one of the reasons that the A1200 didn`t take
well in the UK. The other being the high price, and limited distribution, and
zero advertising, etc etc etc etc (until you are sick of me saying the same
three things)

First time buyers do not buy computers on the basis of what is best. They look
at the adverts, the blurb, then they go into the shops. Then they buiy a PC
becaue their mate said the Amiga is dead, overpriced, crap, etc.

>
>[more snips]
>
>
>>I refer the honourable gentleman to the AT UK debacle, where, if he has read
>>any news reports, AT has fired all but two of the staff and moved them to Esco
>m
>>HQ in the UK. This is due in no small part to the lack of advertising pre-Xmas
>>whic resulted in "poor sales". I would hazard a guess that most of the Amiga
>>buyers who bought a Magic pack Amiga were existing Amiga owners looking to
>>upgrade, not the fabled "new" buyer. IMHO most of us stayed well clear because
>,
>>in many people`s opinions (including the retailers) the AT A1200 was
>>overpriced.
>
>Or, is it a case of getting rid of the excess baggage?

What excess baggage do you mean?


>T.V. ads and magazine ads and interviews don't count as marketing? I read
>here that Gilles was seen on tv? I saw interviews in some of the Amiga mags?

Not in the UK, mate, and that was only 1 show, you can`t expect everyone in the
country to be tuning in to Komputer Klub (or whatever that Belgian program was
called) - And Interviews in Amiga mags don`t exactly get read by newbies do
they?

>
>>Look around today, there are very few Service Providers who specifically cater
>>for Amigas (ie have tech staff on hand in case of problems). AT could
>>essentially cut the price of the Surfer pack to less than 299 UK pounds (or
>>even 199 UK pounds?) In a "console-style" software deal that gives people
>>access to the only Amiga-dedicated service provider in the World (ie AT
>>Internet). That way, people pay less for the hardware, and AT makes profits ou
>t
>>of people subscribing to AT Internet. Offer 3 months free access to AT Interne
>t
>>and prices comparable to Demon, but with better service (that shouldn`t be har
>d
>>;) - Get some PoPs across Europe and USA via Unipalm Pipex and Bob is indeed
>>your venerable father`s brother...
>
>
>This is an EXCELLENT idea!! Have you posed this scenario to the good Dr or
>to Gilles? They just might buy it if it looks monetarily worthwhile ... you
>never know if you don't try it on for size!

Wow! Agreement from Gary! ;) Seriously, this is a sensible idea, as I`ve been
trawling the Internet mags for a decent service provider that will help me set
up my Amiga at home, and, with the exception of the relatively poor service of
Demon, everyone else seems to cater for PC`s only. Many folks out there don`t
even support Macs!

At the mment, AT seems to be letting IBM cash in on the Surfer pack. If IBM are
paying AT for the priveledge, and allowing them to drop the price of the Surfer
pack to consumer levels I can live with it. Otherwise, AT should be seriously
thinking about setting up AT Internet to supply Amigans worldwide. I`m sure
many wuld switch from Demon, or wherever they are if:

1) It offered similar prices to what they were paying at, say, Demon.
2) It offered proper support for Amiga, and maybe licensed soemthing Like Thor
for general use.
3) AT made it clear that any profits from AT Internet went straight into R&D.

e. Too expensive. People don`t care what hoops you had to jump through
>>to get it on the street, they won`t pay *more* for a machine which "died" 1
>>year ago.
>
>What about inflation? Nothing costs today what it did a year ago!

No, PC`s are cheaper (!). The Amiga must be cost reduced - maybe using standard
PC parts, starting with 3.5" IDE HDs - and proper HD disk drives.


>>
>>3) Hardware. The disk drive fiasco wasn`t good. For the few Amigans who
>>actually thought about getting an A1200, the disk drive problem scared them
>>off.
>
>
>Why? I like being able to buy a computer with any size hard drive I want.

I meant the dd/hd floppy disk drive. Not hard drives. Setting up the hardware
to handle standard HD floppies would be a good selling point and would be
cheaper than the expensive hacks AT have to use at the moment just so Old Paula
can get data at the right speed. Replace her with a DSP I say!.

>
>>4) What`s next? AT now have to consider how their fabled A1200Plus will fit
>>into the market place. The wrong spec, price, or bundle could prove costly.
>>IMHO, they have to reduce the price of the A1200 drastically. I could accept a
>>Surfer pack at 399 (including the hard drive and modem etc.)  Clear out the ol
>d
>>A1200 by flogging it off for 299HD or 199 no HD.
>
>Less than the 1200's have ever sold for? No tallying for inflation? This
>will NEVER happen with ANY product ... in our lifetimes!

Bye bye Amiga otherwise. I only give the suggestions, I don`t tell anyone
EXCATLY how they should do this. Maybe they could start by cost reducing.

Put all low/mid range Amigas into a mini tower (instead of having two case
designs, have one and encourage expansion), paint it deep purple, black, and
whatever colour apes the SGI, start using different names for different specs
(Onyx, Indigo, Indy!), start using cheap PC components where possible (I mean
cheap, NOT low quality), and invest any savings in SOFTWARE development.

[snipped]


>>>Who has said that Amiga Technologies is losing money? I haven't heard or
>>>read that anywhere. Facts speak volumes! I do believe that Amiga
>>>Technologies is lessening the 'load' on Escom's finances at the moment!
>>
>>Hmm, how many units sold? What were AT`s expectations?? Certainly much higher
>>than actual sales. Why else would they all but ditch the AT UK operational
>>staff? They should have ditched a few of the less useful Escom Sales staff and
>>replaced them with more Amiga savvy folks. Even AT must realise here that job
>>motivation would be higher than your average spotty ex-Rumbelows salesman if
>>they hired a bunch of Amiga experienced sales people.
>>
>>Heck, I would have applied for a job in my local Escom if they advertised - it
>>was right after I graduated that the first Escom store opened in my local town
>!

Hmm obviously I meant the first Escom shop in their new wave of expansions, not
their first ever shop in the UK ;)

No need to get short with your incredulous replies Gary!

[cut]


>>>>GP> Lot's of changes are going on with our brethren overseas and the way tel
>c
>>>>GP> works, etc. I look for the European market to get much bigger on the
>>>>GP> Internet. The Surfer package will fit right in with that movement.
>>
>>BBEEEPPP! No way are AT going to get an Internet package into the mainstream U
>K
>>market without:
>>
>>1.      The right price
>>2.      A dedicated Amiga service provider who can help you set up.
>>3.      Good software + hardware.
>
>And we are soon to see if you and Eric or us 'apologists' are right.

Youbetcha. In March, when the Surfer pack comes out, we`ll make our mind up. If
the Surfer pack is indeed 1200DM, or approx. 600 UK pounds, then IMHO, it`s
just too much. They haven`t moved the price of the A1200, they`ve just added
the cost of the Surfer pack on top of an A1200. i.e they`ve just fitted the
Surfer in with the existing Magic Pack. That`s a bad idea when you consider
that a cheap 486/66/100/P60 setup with modem etc is a better bet for surfing
than a relatively underpowered A1200 with a high price tag.

[snip]

>>Good for you, but selling this plan in the UK will take some serious price
>>cutting and marketing before the "big-boys" arrive.
>
>I know, I know ... as Harv said in a post to Gilles not too long ago 'we
>want it all, we want it yesterday, and we want it for free'. No way, Jose!
>Tain't gonna happen ... reasonable maybe, serious - I don't see it
>happening.

Neither do I, more`s the pity.

>
>>>If you are looking for a BIG PUSH into North America beginning tomorrow,
>>>don't hold your breath. Amiga Technologies has said more than once that it
>>>ain't gonna happen that way. The PPC is their inroad into the North American
>>>market. THAT competes!!
>>
>>Not without marketing and a competitive price it doesn`t.
>
>Why can't we wait till it gets here before we start bitchin'?

Um, it`s already here in the UK, and IMHO, it`s a disaster.

>
>>
>>[snips]
.. their Escom masters may not think that way if AT starts to cut
>>deeply into Escom`s profits.
>
>But, have they? I don't think so ... at least, not yet!

They wouldn`t tell us...

>>[even more propaganda cut]

>>Face it, you`re just a Yes man, and I don`t mean you`re a member of a 70`s
>>supergroup, even if you liked Rick Wakeman in any way ;)
>
>Sorry, don't know Rick Wakeman? And, no, I'm not a 'yes man'. I just believe
>that what I see is real. I don't go looking for doom and gloom. I don't have
>the belief that the ONLY reason Escom bought the Amiga is to rape the
>fanatics as some here feel. I happen to think that Amiga Technologies has
>hired and contracted some people with heart and feeling. I happen to believe
>that the difference between the Amiga and all other computers is the heart
>and feeling and emotion that Dr Kittle, Dave Haynie, and a bunch of others
>have left in each of our computers. I have read the plan in the speeches and
>press releases and have seen them taking it each step of the way. They are
>now about 1/3 of the way there, why not give them the benefit of the doubt
>FINALLY and say 'well, they have come this far, surely they are going all
>the way now'? How long do we continue to prophicize doom and gloom and rape
>and pillage of the masses? How long do we doubt a company that has not lied
>to us ONE TIME so far? These guys and gals are NOT C=!!!


Hmm, Rick Wakeman, who did the music for Microcosm, who was prevenalent in that
super-band of the 70`s that you MUST have heard of -"Yes" the ones with the
Roger Dean artwork? Never mind. Too crusty to remember, obviously.

Yes, AT has hired some good people. But their product is not strong enough to
sell at the prices they are demanding. I want the Amiga to succeed as much as
anyone else, but I`m not in any way interested in buying any of their products
at the moment until something comes along that`s WORTH buying...